Matt appears to have read virtually none of the suggested documentation (as is repeatedly recommended) and now he is bleating about lack of technical support. Jeez!

Let’s consider a few of the particularly off-base comments:

“What I’m NOT OK with is misrepresentations. ”

I think the “misrepresentations” thing is about MrSID. Clearly marked in pride of place on the manifold.net home page is a big link to Formats. One hopes that anyone interested in a particular format will click on that link. Looking up MrSID on that link one finds:

“SID .sid “MrSID” images using LizardTech proprietary format. Requires prior installation of any one of several free import utilities. ”

OK…this is not rocket science: The formats page clearly tells you that working with sids requires an import utility. No “misrepresentations” here. Presumably, anyone interested in MrSID will next seek more detailed discussion. That is conveniently at hand in the very copious and detailed text available online in the User Manual (all 5000 pages of which are reprinted on line so that there is no possibility of anyone having to do without total, complete, detailed information on any aspect of Manifold).

The complete topic on importing MrSID is at

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/import_image_sid_mrsid.htm

which, of course, also includes links to helpful topics like the Compressed Images topic at

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/compressed_images.htm

which *explicitly* provides advice that Matt should have followed. These topics make it clear in a totally over-the-top way just exactly how .sid files should be used, that is, converted to ECW.

No surprises there to anyone who bothers to read the documentation. Anyone can read the URL to the MrSID topic above and see that what I am saying is painfully true. Matt, if there is any “misrepresentation” here it is you who is doing the misrepresentation by failing to note that any confusion you have about MrSID arises entirely from your failure to read the documentation about it. We can put the material there on the web site and in the user manual but if you don’t read it, that’s your fault.

For that matter, if by some imbecilic maneuver you managed not to realize any of that and ordered Manifold by accident despite all Manifold’s efforts to tell you everything possible you might want to know *before* the sale, well, you could have just returned the product using the money-back guarantee! The product is structured the way it is because very large numbers of GIS users like it that way. You don’t have to agree with them. If you don’t like it, no problem - that’s what a 30 day money-back guarantee is for, to assure that in no way possible are there any misunderstandings about what people want.

Let’s now turn to

“In the help file & online manual there are approximately 4 pages devoted to Internet Mapping Services of some kind or another. ”

This is utter foolishness and misrepresentation as well. IMS is an *integral part* of Manifold so everything else that is said in that manual applies. There are thousands of pages of information on a myriad set of capabilities that are part of Manifold and so are part of or can be part of an IMS project. You can’t use IMS without understanding Manifold and only a fool attempts to use sophisticated software of this nature without bothering to read the documentation in the recommended order. Manifold repeatedly advises people not to skip the introductory reading on their way to becoming IMS gods.

Specifically, that recommendation is to read *at least* the topics in the Introduction chapter and also the topics in the Examples chapter. As is noted in the initial “Read Me First” topic at

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/read_me_first.htm

“No matter how smart or experienced you are, the minimum amount of reading required to operate Manifold is to read all the topics in the Introduction chapter followed by reading all of the topics in the Examples chapter.

Even if you have a very simple job to do there is no way to shorten this time or to skip necessary topics. It’s like learning to drive a car: you must learn to operate the steering wheel, the brake, the gas pedal and the transmission or you don’t go anywhere. Just because you want to drive a short distance or because you are under time pressure doesn’t mean you can skip learning about the steering wheel or the brakes.”

Later on that same Read Me First topic also advises:

“Advice from Technical Support: Some topics are so detailed you will be tempted to jump directly into them if they look like what you need to do today under deadline pressure. Resist the temptation. All topics assume you’ve read and understood the foundation material presented in the Introduction and Examples chapters, so other topics do not repeat necessary, but elementary, steps. Jumping into a topic without reading the introductory material in the Introduction and Examples chapters will most likely waste time and cause needless frustration.”

Gee whiz, Matt, they appear to be talking about you! From what you wrote it appears you neglected to read all sorts of important introductory topics. I can’t believe you would have had the difficulties you report had you read topics such as the ever popular “Working with Large Images or Surfaces” topic at:

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/working_with_large_images_or_surfaces.htm

The Performance Tips topic at

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/performance_tips.htm

or heck, dozens of other topics that would have helped.

The Performance Tips topic is especially relevant since there are often many different ways of doing the same thing in Manifold (or, of course, IMS) and it can make a big difference whether you take the time to learn how to do something in an expert, efficient way or whether you don’t bother to read the many tips and points of advice provided and end up doing things very ineptly and slowly.

Also to quote from that topic:

“People are sometimes amused that we include the user as part of our performance tips. However, the greatest gains in performance are usually achieved by using a better method or algorithm. More often than not the sole factor in whether a better method is used is the expertise and clarity of mind that can be mustered by the user. A healthy, well-rested, expert user is the best performance accelerator around.”

So true!

One last thing… getting back to your comment:

“”In the help file & online manual there are approximately 4 pages devoted to Internet Mapping Services of some kind or another. ”

… the bit about 4 pages is utter nonsense. Even if you neglect the many, many other pages that describe Manifold features and functions used within IMS, even so there are six (count ‘em) very serious topics explicitly devoted to IMS:

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/map_server_overview.htm

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/creating_a_web_site.htm

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/ims_config_txt_options.htm

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/ims_queries.htm

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/publishing_multiple_pages.htm

http://www.manifold.net/doc/7x/optimizing_performance.htm

… together with seventeen (count ‘em, seventeen!) fully-formed tutorial examples on the Free Stuff page (which users are advised to consult in the first of the above topics). The above URLs also include many links to useful topics and contain many points which your blog entries appear to indicate you did not bother to read.

For example, in the Optimizing Performance topic cited above there is an explicit note that had you followed it would have assured you “blistering hot performance” indeed instead of the minutes-long delays you reported:

“Use Compressed Images - Using a linked image with an ECW or JPEG 2000 file is vastly faster than ordinary images, a difference of virtually instantaneous zooming and panning as opposed to possibly minutes for very large images.”

Hey! Look at that! The topic even uses “minutes” just like you complained about! - I know plenty of people who operate image servers using 20+ GB ECWs on machines that are real turkeys (older generation PCs with limited memory) who do indeed get instantaneous response. I myself have used very large ECWs and continue to be amazed at the instantaneous response even when using very large files.

Look, you’re entitled to your opinion, but people are also entitled to judge you as a lightweight if you commit the cardinal technology sin of mucking about with serious, sophisticated software without bothering to read the instructions. When you thrash about without having bothered to follow directions your blog entries don’t provide much guidance to serious people except as evidence that you don’t have the technical maturity to take the advice of more experienced colleagues seriously (namely, the advice from tech support in the Read Me First topic).

Manifold is an incredibly rich and powerful program. You can indeed do a vast range of things in it. But just like Visual Studio or any other serious environment very little of that is available beyond the trivial level to people who are unwilling to invest the time required to learn the package in the recommended order.

It’s been often remarked that “Manifold is software for grown-ups.” Part of being a grown up is understanding that you do indeed have to read the instructions to operate complex things. Grown ups know that if they don’t have the time to do something they’ve taken on it is not realistic to expect someone else to do it for them for free.

So, if you are a grown up about these things you *like* the idea that your cost of Manifold is the cost of a license unburdened by tech support costs because you don’t want to spend your hard earned cash on expensive services you don’t need. Grown ups *expect* to have to pay a fair price for consulting and education if they are unwilling or unable to read and educate themselves.

Ultimately, manifold.net makes no judgement calls on this: if you want tech support, no problem: you can pay for it and at a darn low rate at that ($49 per incident in a ten pack to consult with expert, world-class developers on development matters is darn cheap). And, if you don’t need tech support and can leverage free resources like reading the user manual or participating in online user forums, no problem. You’ll be glad no one is going to take money from you for something you don’t need.

In a nutshell, Matt, if someone takes on a bigtime IMS project and doesn’t bother to read the documentation as recommended they are not remotely as likely to get the results they want as someone who does. Surely, every person experienced in technology would expect that.

But if you take on a project without following the advice in the documentation that’s not manifold’s fault, it’s the guy who took on a serious project without the maturity to learn how to do it right using the tool at hand. I’m sorry you didn’t follow the advice offered, but anyone who’s read those links I cite can see that if you failed to do so it was despite Manifold’s best efforts to advise you. As they say, “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”

Regards to all,

Dimitri
(a Manifold guy)

Take a look at:
http://www.fmtn.org/GeneralMap/

This is a beta site running on Manifold 7x. It’s not approved for public consumption yet, but I could use a few more beta tsters, so give it a go. I wouldn’t say it’s the best Manifold based IMS ever created (or even close), but it does show that Manifold IMS does work, and quite well (I’ve been using the Manifold IMS intenally for City employees a couple of years now).

There are two issues that need to point out ahead of time.
1) Make sure you use the Select/Find buttons on the Web Page, and not the enter button on your keyboard.
2) The “Summary of Selected Addresses” takes quite a bit of time (30+ seconds), so please be patient and wait for the query to return the results. I’m working on finding a way to optimize the query.

This site uses the IMS Template from GIS advisor.com. If your serious about learning Manifold, the GIS Advisor videos will help a lot! I really like the ability that Manifold provides to do spatial SQL queries via a web site.

And, as Petz said above, it looks like you tried to import the entire image into your .map file. This is a no-no And, it shows that you really don’t understand the product - you really should do what Manifold says, and go through their help files for Getting Started or get some training. Its humbling to have to admit that you can’t just get started, but have to follow their advice. There is a difference between importing and linking. And for images, it is a H U G E difference. It is a rookie mistake you made by confusing linking and importing - and you paid for it I think if you get them straight, you will enjoy the product much better.

Instead of trashing the entire product on your blog for the world to see, you should just ask a question on the forum. Have less of an itchy trigger. BTW, people say the forum is even better than paying Manifold for support. I agree. The people on the forum are really helpful.

Judging from this comment, eg the fact that the resulting map file was 1.4GB big, you didnt link to the ecw’s, but rather had them imported into the map file and stored in the Manifold internal format. You would get get a huge speed improvement if you simply linked to the ecw’s. The resulting map file also would then be only a couple of kb big.

As for the support, okay, you get what you pay for, for +- 400 dollars, and no maintenance contract, you cant expect Manifold the company to put huge resources into developing massive tutorials, faq’s and other support resources.
I agree with you that the help for the IMS functionality, except for a basic setup and functionality, is not really covered in the help and they could improve on that.

What they do do though is provide “free support” in the form of Manifold staff responding to forum threads (Dimitri & AdamW). These contributions along with many other very active forum members provide for a very supportive, frank and lively discussions and help with solutions.

If you need other resources, we are developing a Wiki, to be found at manipedia.spatialknowledge.eu, that might be of interest to you.

First off, take a look at World Wind to see if it would meet your needs. We have many compelling features that might improve your spinny globe experience

Second, take a look at Mapserver or even Map Guide to serve up your data. They are blazing fast and have plenty of people on #mapserver on irc.freenode.net willing to answer questions. I had some very large datasets (4-600G) being served up to WorldWind and ArcGIS Explorer via WMS and was pleased with the speed.